Once More With Feeling: Once More With Feeling - Being a superpower means never having to admit...
markhorne
· 1 year ago
Ok, I'm open to issues of fact as to whether this was said or if it is Doug's argument. But this is my last comment, I think on the principle. The principle is, if I say as a representative of Country Y that Country X is doing wrong by engaging in behavior that I know Country Y engates in, then I am being hypocritical.
Jonathan W
· 1 year ago
I don't get statements like this. Isn't that vacuously true for any nation? Wouldn't any nation hope that they can arm themselves and have their enemies disarm? How is that contradictory?
markhorne
· 1 year ago
It remains hypocrisy to condemn weapons development in general while practicing it oneself.
Jonathan W
· 1 year ago
No, that is precisely what I don't get. Why is it hypocritical to hope that you are stronger than your enemy and that your enemy gets/remains weaker (and taking policy actions to ensure it)?
markhorne
· 1 year ago
I'm pretty sure this is about policy rhetoric: condemning other nations for doing wrong things--things which you yourself do.
Jonathan W
· 1 year ago
Ok, I must be really dense, Mark...
If it's ok, as a policy, to hope for your benefit and for your enemies detriment. Why is it hypocritical for your rhetoric to match your policy? Isn't that just being consistent?
markhorne
· 1 year ago
So is it wrong for Iran to do this, then?
Jonathan W
· 1 year ago
Don't they try to strengthen their hand while weakening ours? I don't think it's wrong for them to do so.
To bring this to some kind of America vs Iran thing... yeah, I'm going to cheer for the US to be the "winner" in this contest. So while I think Iran has the complete right to hope for their success and our detriment, as a US citizen, I'm kind of hoping for the US' success and Iran's detriment on this one.
And this brings me back to the original question: how is this hypocritical? I'm not supposed to choose sides? I'm supposed to act like all countries are morally equivalent when they act in their interests?
markhorne
· 1 year ago
Seems to me you avoided hypocrisy by allowing rights to Iran that are being denied in the public discourse that Bandow criticizes.
Jonathan W
· 1 year ago
I didn't allow Iran the right. I only said that it makes sense that they would try to act like they have that right.
To be honest, Mark. I didn't answer your question at all because I don't know how to. I don't know how to answer the question if applied to my native country. I merely expect both countries to behave as if the other country did not have this right. I expect both countries to act toward their own benefit and the opposition's detriment. I don't know if this behavior is wrong (I suspect not, to be honest). Maybe it is, maybe for both sides, maybe just one.
But say it is.... I still don't see how it makes such actions hypocritical. Is all wrong doing some subset of hypocrisy?
All Comments
If it's ok, as a policy, to hope for your benefit and for your enemies detriment. Why is it hypocritical for your rhetoric to match your policy? Isn't that just being consistent?
To bring this to some kind of America vs Iran thing... yeah, I'm going to cheer for the US to be the "winner" in this contest. So while I think Iran has the complete right to hope for their success and our detriment, as a US citizen, I'm kind of hoping for the US' success and Iran's detriment on this one.
And this brings me back to the original question: how is this hypocritical? I'm not supposed to choose sides? I'm supposed to act like all countries are morally equivalent when they act in their interests?
To be honest, Mark. I didn't answer your question at all because I don't know how to. I don't know how to answer the question if applied to my native country. I merely expect both countries to behave as if the other country did not have this right. I expect both countries to act toward their own benefit and the opposition's detriment. I don't know if this behavior is wrong (I suspect not, to be honest). Maybe it is, maybe for both sides, maybe just one.
But say it is.... I still don't see how it makes such actions hypocritical. Is all wrong doing some subset of hypocrisy?